Jump to content
kotmj

Shirts

Recommended Posts

Screenshot_2018-10-09-01-08-08-159_com.g

Sorry, wrong house. It's the opposite house. This one.

A view of the upper floors.

Screenshot_2018-10-09-01-08-45-997_com.g

Suitably ghetto, like all workshops are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Screenshot_2018-10-09-01-19-51-910_com.a

And this is the north Italian recommendation. You see the upper floor with the mannequins? That's the one. Seems like a much higher cost outfit than the Napoli one. Here's the view from the shop:

Screenshot_2018-10-09-01-25-23-033_com.a

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Screenshot_2018-10-09-09-43-34-992_com.g

I strolled (virtually) around the neighborhood of the Napoli shirt workshop when, maybe 100 meters away, I saw this lady. She's holding a dark tailored jacket.

Is she a coatmaker delivering a jacket she had completed at home to the jacket workshop? Or is she a finisher, who does all the external hand sewing on a jacket? Or perhaps she's just a normal person who picked up a jacket from the dry cleaners?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Giulio,

I asked XXXX of YYYY to recommend to me a shirtmaker who can sew shirts for my business. He gave me your contact.
 
I run a bespoke tailoring business in Kuala Lumpur making suits and shirts. I would like to offer my customers the option of having the shirts made either in Kuala Lumpur or in Napoli.
 
I imagine I will send the paper patterns and cloth over, your company cuts and sews, then send the finished goods to me.
 
Is this something you'd be interested in?
 
Cheers,
Jeremy
JeremyTok.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Giulio quoted me a price. It is very high. It's 15 passages by hand with an open worked shoulder, whatever that means.

With such a price and courier charges, I'm pessimistic about the market viability. A shirt would be priced pretty much at Luca Avitabile territory.

I may have to find an alternative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One way to bring the price down is to go for 8 passages by hand. In fact, this is pretty much the standard at Naples. 15 passages is the max amount of handwork.

Liverano shirts are I believe 8 passages or fewer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I'm now pretty sure Liverano shirts are four passages.

Last night, I wrote to Francisco Holzer.

Hey! I was quoted XX by a company in Napoli to cut and sew a 15 passages by hand shirt. Very expensive, no?

I may have to abandon the plan to offer Napoli-made shirts to my customers.
 
Sit back and enjoy his reply:
 
 
It might be a scam since the fee is XX-YY for 15 passages ( Kiton quality= a shirt that retails for minimun 400 euros)
 
It is the price for a 8 passages.
 
Beware with Neapolitans and never pay in advance, they always say what you want to ear but never do what they say.
 
and in the best of the cases, they can even deliver a shirt machine made or with 4 passages made quite fast.
 
Even me who knows all the industry let my dream of offering bespoke shirts finished by the own factory I was working.
 
I am pretty ill and in hospital  back and forth for years, I can offer you the bespoke tie service that is fast and reliable.
 
I was a damn narcissist as my family, I am now one of the biggest experts about the Dark Triad of Personality: psychopathy, narcissism, maquiavelism
and so on, thatnks God I could get rid of the secta of some of my relatives in prison:
 
The biggest heroin traficker of it´s time: the psycho who beated up me everyday while robbed my mother 15 millions
 keep it secret.
 
I hope you also get rid of your narcissism since being humild and low is the biggest thing one can live, 
 
FS francisco sepulcre,  the psychopath brother of my mother victim, in Hell since 10 years ago, what a party I did.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

margini%20cucitura%20camicia.jpg?raw=1

Giulio sent this back to me. I learnt a few things! In Italy, just like in Germany, they write their "1" just like that and use the comma as decimal point. They also use the metric system, unlike in KL where we use inches.

He titled the sketch "margini cucitura camicia". Literally, margins seams shirt. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DSC02238.jpg?raw=1

One of the shirts we made on the left, and Oxwhite on the right. You're looking at the armscye. The Oxwhite incorporates a double sided fusible in the armscye like almost all RTW and many tailor-made shirts. As a result, it is very smooth. The shirt on the left contains nothing in the armscye---no fusible. It is completely natural and so has mild corrugation.

The Oxwhite is the first time I've seen a 1/4" fusible. I was always told and have only ever seen 3/8" fusibles, which results in a 1/2" lapped seam in the armscye. I've always thought this too wide, so stuck with a natural 3/8" lapped seam.

The other difference between the two lapped seams is, the Oxwhite was sewn on a double needle chainstitch machine with a folder attached to the front. All the operator had to do was to feed both pieces of cloth into the folder. The machine does the rest. The shirt on the left was sewn on a regular single needle lockstitch machine. The operator sews once. Then, he folds and trims the seam allowance. Then he sews the second row.

I think I might choose to use a fusible in the armscye going forward. Just like Oxwhite and basically everyone else, including Liverano. It just looks better, even if not as artisanal.

DSC02239.jpg?raw=1

The other part where Oxwhite uses a fusible is the front of the yoke. The shirt on the front has no fusible in the yoke, so it is not as smooth. I don't find this to be a big deal, and will continue not having a fused yoke.

DSC02240.jpg?raw=1

Left, a buttonhole on one of my shirts. Right is Oxwhite. Over the years, I've broached the topic of buttonholes with both my shirtmaker and various sewing machine sellers. I asked them, why are some buttonholes much nicer than others? As usual when talking with normal people, they don't know what I'm talking about. For them, a buttonhole is just a buttonhole. They cannot see a difference.

The mystery is compounded by the fact that there is only one kind of shirt buttonhole machine. There isn't a superior model which produces a superior buttonhole. It's just one model.

A few years back I did some Googling about this, and on some sewing forum somewhere, a person said it's about how you thread the machine. Just by threading the machine slightly differently, you produce the sort of buttonhole you see on the right. Obviously this is a topic I should take up again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/30/2018 at 6:38 PM, kotmj said:

DSC02123.jpg?raw=1

Shirt by Liverano. Sexiest BD known to man and puffy Neapolitan sleeveheads. Hand sewn buttonholes and very nice MOPs.

In fact, you see here the 1/2" lapped seams on a Liverano armscye. I have always found such wide seams to be "coarse" not fine, but they are very prevalent. Everybody uses wide armscye seams, except a few like Ascot Chang and, err, Oxwhite and obviously JTTW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Believe it or not, it is actually possible to write a whole book about the shirt. Not the actual tailoring thereof, but just the very many interesting aspects of every part of the shirt. You'd think such a book would exist in the English language given the extreme prevalence of shirts, but it doesn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the founders of Buttonwell asked to meet with me to learn more about shirts, which they plan to introduce next. With Oxwhite around, they'll---as the Americans say---"have their work cut out for them."

I'm eager to see what I can learn from them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DSC02336.jpg?raw=1

I even asked the dispatch boy to pick out MOP buttons in a matching colour. Can't believe I took the trouble to tell him that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I met with the founders of Buttonwell this morning. They both came to the shop with their spouses. They are such cheerful and socially well-integrated people---quite unlike me. They've also met the founder of Oxwhite; it was interesting to hear about their encounter with him.

They really don't know much about fabrics at all. Had to start from basics. I learn they originally intended to make office shirts in Giza 45, but couldn't source the latter. They ended up making T-shirts in supima. I would be their permanent fan if they produced Tshirts in Giza 45.

I told them what I know about shirting fabrics, which turns out to be quite a lot. I wonder how their first shirt will turn out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/29/2018 at 10:29 AM, kotmj said:

DSC00458.jpg?raw=1

This shirt has not been ironed and has no buttons. Posted a photo of it anyway. A one-piece buttondown collar.

Is that meant to be a bib?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×