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The suiting thread


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Sorry to hijack the conversation guys, but I have a question. What are the things to consider when choosing canvassing material for a jacket? Is it just a matter of matching the stiffness of the canvas to the suiting/SC material? Or are there any construction related factors to consider?

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Sorry to hijack the conversation guys, but I have a question. What are the things to consider when choosing canvassing material for a jacket? Is it just a matter of matching the stiffness of the canvas to the suiting/SC material? Or are there any construction related factors to consider?

 

Resilience and weight need to be matched to the cloth and taste.

The first depends mostly on the hair content. Somewhere between 0 and 15%. 

Other fibres matter as well: a wool/hair/viscose canvas will have a different feel than a cotton/hair/viscose canvas.

 

Most of that is taste and preference (of the customer and tailor)

You could make a lightweight coat with a beefier canvas to get more structure, or a heavier coat with a softer canvas.

It could be lightweight but relatively springy, or the other way around.

Some might go as soft as a piece of linen cut on the bias.

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Thanks Alievens. By resilience, do you mean how springy the canvas is? 

 

Yes springy is probably a better word. The ability to return back to it's original shape.

"Stiff" makes it sound like it's something bad :)

 

There's also a piece of haircloth in the chest, often with a much higher hair content

Depending on how it's cut, the effect on structure and softness is at least as important as the type of body canvas.

 

Are those pictures of your work in the tumblr page?

 

They are mine but rather hobby than work.

 

And welcome to thekerbau.

 

 

Thank you, been reading for a while, didn't realise this is my first post!

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I'm very much enjoying the talk about canvasses, and in particular find Alievens' dispassionate, objective consideration of a spectrum of possibilities refreshing. This forum has long been plagued by people who are possessed of a certain narrow religion and who cannot think straight. Because their brains are too small.

 

I think thoughtful tailors can talk about canvasses until the mosquitos sleep, as we say in Cantonese. It is a vast, fascinating topic. It influences the feel and look of the jacket to a very large degree, and has many ramifications in the sewing.

 

I will just add at this juncture that I know of two methods of getting acquainted with the properties of canvasses, when one first encounters a new sort.

 

The Bias Test

This is the one every tailor in Malaysia uses. They take hold of the canvas between the fingers of both hands, on the bias, about 3" apart, and stretch it. Then they let go and see how quickly it recovers to its original, unstretched dimension.

 

The Crush Test

This is the method I like to use to supplement the one above. Just take hold of it and crush it in the palms of your hand. Hold for 10 seconds. Let go and see how well it recovers. Some canvasses are crush-resistant, believe it or not.

 

I don't want to disturb the Zen flow of this thread but have to post this. From today:

zisheng2_zps2059f757.jpg

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So Alievens, I've had a closer look at your tumblr. Were you ever professionally a coat maker, or is this really just a hobby? It's all very impressive, though I have customers who would rake me over hot coals at the high button stance of that 2-button.

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So Alievens, I've had a closer look at your tumblr. Were you ever professionally a coat maker, or is this really just a hobby? It's all very impressive, though I have customers who would rake me over hot coals at the high button stance of that 2-button.

 

 

Yup, it's only a hobby, it got a little out of hand. 

 

There are only 3 button coats on that page, in fact, I think I've never made a 2 button lounge coat.

I can't say I'm 100% satisfied with all the styling details on everything I've made though.

 

Experiments don't always come out the way you want, and sometimes it turns out you were not so sure what you wanted in the first place!

Always very enthusiastic during fittings, and as soon as things are finished, I sometimes get a tiny bit disappointed.

Overall still very happy with what I learned in less than 2 years.

 

Haven't used linen canvas. I feel that it would only add weight and body but not a lot of shaping.

Most coat makers that swear by it are not exactly making garments that I personally like so I don't see myself trying it too soon.

 

-arno

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I ask about linen body canvas because after all these years I still haven't figured out how it's supposed to work. Maybe one is supposed to "just do it".

 

Of all the cloths out there, linen is the most dimensionally unstable and indefinite. Along areas of tension, it undergoes plastic deformation. When tugged on the bias, it has only a weak recovery ability.

 

I have no idea what will happen to the fronts of jackets when married to such an unstable substrate. Sounds like it will be a disaster to me.

 

Moreover, linen stretches just due to its own weight, from the hanger. The shell cloth in wool would have to hold up the damned canvas!

 

It also is very heavy by the standards of canvasses; one will certainly feel the weight on the shoulder after a day of wear. It is also bulky/thick, and has a "dead" feel, like carpet. The hair canvasses are light, airy, and springy.

 

However, some amazing tailors swear by it. Check out Musella Dembech if you haven't already.

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However, some amazing tailors swear by it. Check out Musella Dembech if you haven't already.

 

This is an interesting piece of information, because some of the Dembech examples I have seen look very drapey and "weighty" but not particularly structured. I have always attributed it to the weight of the cloth they use, but maybe it has something to do with the linen canvas.

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However, some amazing tailors swear by it. Check out Musella Dembech if you haven't already.

 

 

Proves that you should just give it a try.

 

The linen and linen/wool canvas samples from Zorloni I have here feel much more springy than most others I have felt.

I will probably give it a try next summer, combined with a softer chest canvas.

It may be heavier in weight, but so is linen suiting compared to woollens.

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Well you can always unpick and bin the canvas after first fitting.

Maybe start with a wool/linen blend to get used to the idea.

 

Or just run away from the whole concept and keep doing what you like.

What exactly triggered your interest?

You noted many disadvantages but no advantages (other than the coats from Dembech)

Looking at pictures in this thread will certainly diminish your appetite:

http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=169&hl=%2Bwest+%2Bend+%2Bbreakdown

 

I think the whole idea is based on the fact that it will mold to the shape of the wearer over time. (and that doesn't appeal to me)

It will feel like a sweater over time

Unfortunately, it often looks like one too :/

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